Learn How to Reverse Your Cardiovascular Age PLUS: Raising Data-Smart Kids for the Future of Work
Help your kids thrive in a data-driven world. Discover how to build data curiosity at home with easy tips from Jasmin Hemdani, a software engineer at Oura Ring.
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We hear it all the time: prepare your kids for the future. But how do you do that in a world that’s being reshaped by artificial intelligence, wearables, and automation? Here's one key to give them a head start: helping them become data-smart.
In this episode of the MindBodySpace Podcast, we sit down with Jasmine Hemdani, software engineer at Oura Ring, to uncover how health data not only transformed her own wellness—but how understanding data is becoming an essential skill for the next generation.
What Is a Data-Smart Kid?
A data-smart kid doesn’t need to be a math whiz.
They need to:
- Ask questions about what they see and feel
- Notice patterns in their everyday world
Why It Matters More Than Ever
According to the World Economic Forum, data literacy will be one of the most in-demand job skills by 2030. Kids who grow up comfortable around metrics, graphs, and algorithms will have an edge—no matter their path.
And here’s what you can do: it’s not about tutoring. It’s about getting curious and introducing everyday data into your conversations
3 Ways to Build Data Curiosity at Home
1. Start With Sleep and Energy Levels
You don’t need a wearable to notice energy levels. Ask your child: "Did you feel more rested after going to bed earlier?" Then track the results!
2. Track Something Fun Together
Pick one thing: mood, steps, screen time, price of groceries. Make a simple chart or emoji tracker. Let them take the lead.
3. Narrate Your Own Patterns
Model data curiosity: “When I walk after dinner, I sleep better.” Show it in a log sheet. Remind yourselves that grown-ups are still learning too.
Jasmin’s Journey: A Real-World Example
Jasmin Hemdani didn’t set out to become a data evangelist. But after noticing that her cardiovascular age was actually older than her biological age, she used data to transform her fitness routine, reverse that number, and find a new ways to get healthier.
Now, at Oura Ring, she designs systems that help millions track sleep, stress, and recovery. In this episode, Jasmin shares how we can all understand how feedback loops work—and how a data driven mindset can set us up to make everyday decisions that change our whole life trajectory.
Special Note for Moms
In the full episode, Jasmine shares how she balances a high-tech career with personal well-being, and how any parent can integrate simple data tools to track mood, stress, and recovery. These stories offer inspiration—not just for helping your kids—but for taking charge of your own wellness journey too.
Final Word: Let Curiosity Lead the Way
Kids are naturally curious about themselves. Bring data into whatever topic they're interested in and ask them questions. Let your kids lead the topic with your guidance.
Wishing you wellness,
Dr. Juna
Transcript:
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Jasmin Hemdani: [00:00:00] oh, my heart is getting old.
I need to work out. And that was a huge motivator in getting me out the door and getting me on a brisk walk and getting me back on the weight machine and getting me back on the rowing machine. September of last year, my cardiovascular age was six and a half years. and then it climbed up to five and a half. Then it climbed up to four and a half. So my heart was like. Catching up with my body not being as young as it was like a month ago.
Juna: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the MINDBODY Space Podcast. I'm Dr. Juna your host, today's guest is Jasmin Hemdani. ~I met her. I met her at the Harvard. ~Jasmin is a software and data engineer at Oura Rings.
In this episode, we're gonna explore how data can empower us to make healthy choices. I sit down with Jasmin to talk about her inspiring journey in tech and how data science can support everyday wellness.
Jasmin also shares her fascinating career track and she shares some tips on how to introduce simple [00:01:00] engaging data activities for our kids to boost their resilience and future ready skills.
So whether you wanna make healthy changes in your life or just data curious, this episode is for you.
Jasmin Hemdani: Hi Juna. Is my background. Okay,
Juna: it is awesome. ~And I love, I love it. ~You look great. And,
Jasmin Hemdani: thanks.
Juna: in black,
Jasmin Hemdani: I know.
Juna: I love black. ~I, ~I stopped wearing colors because I think colors are, ~um, ~so difficult. ~I don't know. I, I accessorize, I, ~I tried to buy colors for a long time and then I met this woman in medical school. She was in residency with me and, ~uh, ~she just said my closet is just all black.
Jasmin Hemdani: Oh wow.
Juna: decide what to wear. ~But you can always accessorize right.~
Jasmin Hemdani: That's so true. Like I love black, but I also did some ~like, ~work with color theory just to learn what my colors are. ~'cause I love colors.~
Juna: Uhhuh.
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Um, ~and so it, like the course really helped me figure out what colors I should be wearing that will make me look, my skin look glowing and. Pop my features help, my features pop.
~Um, ~today I wore black [00:02:00] just to kind of match you a little bit. And a turtleneck never disappoint.
Juna: ~Yeah. ~Well, you see the pop of color behind me, the
Jasmin Hemdani: I me do.
Juna: Yeah.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah,
Juna: ~anyway, that's, that's what that's about. ~But see the pop of colors outside of me.
Jasmin Hemdani: I love that.
Juna: everything else is just like black. And if I need color, I'll just, ~you know, ~throw on a scarf.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: problems with scarves too, but that's a whole other story. ~And, but you look awesome. And ~I wanna hear about this color theory real quick because I read about that, that people were doing this, that what, what was it? An online course.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah, it was an online course. It came with ~like ~a brief consultation, ~uh, ~with a woman who ~like ~really knows colors and she had me send her pictures of myself in various light conditions ~and ~like ~in ~bathroom light ~and ~evening light and daytime light, and ~like lots of lighting conditions. And then we met, um.~
~And she had, ~she had done a lot of Photoshopping with my pictures to show me how different colors look on my skin. ~And yeah, ~it was really nice. ~Like ~she has an office in Boston, but you could go and do ~like ~the in-person colors swatches.
Juna: I just heard about this at an entrepreneurial conference at MIT [00:03:00] where they were talking about ~this, um, ~this startup where they do color matching. Do you know ~what, ~what was the name of her company?
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Gotcha. Um, it's, hold on one second. Oh.~
Yeah, it was Anna Harris, I think.
Juna: Oh, okay. ~I'm gonna look it up. ~Awesome.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah. ~Yeah. She's really, ~I loved her. ~I, and ~I just loved the interaction. It just Like having a really good friend give you fashion advice, ~um, ~and they know what they're talking about.
Juna: And it wasn't ai. ~'cause I know~
Jasmin Hemdani: It wasn't ai.
Juna: Yeah. Okay. So thank you so much for being here, Jasmin, and ~uh, ~I really appreciate you taking out the time to be on this podcast today. I loved what you talked about at the Harvard Women in Business
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah,
Juna: where we met
Jasmin Hemdani: that is true.
Juna: yeah. And the Oura Ring
Jasmin Hemdani: Oura.
Juna: Oura.
Jasmin Hemdani: Oura.
Juna: Oura looks so fashionable on you ~with your old black outfit. ~I love
Jasmin Hemdani: It's right here.
Juna: I have to say I'm wearing the whoop.
Jasmin Hemdani: Oh, okay.
Juna: I was using the Apple Watch. My son wanted me to use it. He got it for for Christmas, and it just wasn't working for me for some reason. when I came to Harvard this year, I [00:04:00] saw Will Ahmed ~at. ~At the Harvard Club of Boston. He was ~just ~fascinating. ~And ~when he talked about, ~um, ~heart rate variability, which I have been ~actually ~using in my classes at Julliard ~and ~over the past 10 years, teaching people about their heart rate variability ~that ~I was fascinated. So I bought the whoop band
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: I'm gonna try the Oura
Jasmin Hemdani: All right.
Juna: ring.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: I have had some people actually, Convert me a little bit I've seen people wearing the Oura and the whoop
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: 'cause I'm like, what do you do when you're weightlifting ~or something ~and you have that ring on?
Jasmin Hemdani: I am all about people being aware of their health, aware of how their bodies are changing and what signals their bodies are sending them. Personally, I believe that Oura is the best out there. ~Um, and ~it works very well for me because of its form factor and ~I, ~I don't wear any ~tic ~tech on my body that ~like ~can distract me.
So anything that gives me a notification. ~It ~is ~like ~never on me. Even my phone is ~like ~hardly ever on me.
Juna: [00:05:00] great.
Jasmin Hemdani: I love that and ~I, ~it's a change that I've made very conscientiously over the last ~like ~three years or so, and it has done wonders.
Juna: Wow. tell the audience what you do at Oura and how you got there.
Jasmin Hemdani: Absolutely. ~So, um, ~I'm a data and software engineer here at Oura.
Juna: Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: have been here since June of 2023. ~Um, ~so that's coming up on two years. ~It time has flown by ~at Oura. I work with the research operations team. ~So ~what my team does is ~when our, ~when we are launching. New studies. We do a lot of studies like Oura invests so much in science and figuring out ~what's out there, ~what else can we decipher from the signals that our body sends us.
And ~so ~my team is at the forefront of these studies. We are contracting with universities, ~we're ~developing protocols. ~We're. ~Getting the participants, ~uh, ~ensuring we have a proper, ~uh, ~spread of, ~uh, ~candidates across demographics and body types ~and everything else. And ~as a data engineer, I [00:06:00] build ~the infrastructure, this, ~the electronic infrastructure that transports this data from candidates from university campuses to the Oura system.
And we do a. Part of my job is to make sure it happens effectively, efficiently, and also safely. ~Uh, ~that we are protecting
Juna: wise?
Jasmin Hemdani: ~privacy wise. Uh, ~so we're protecting people's identity, ~information or protecting, uh, ~ensuring that we are only taking the data that folks have given consent for ensuring that the governance is proper, ~uh, and ~all while building these cool algorithms, ~um, ~that we develop ~from, ~from the data that we collect.
Juna: Amazing. Tell us about one of, ~um, ~the algorithms that you can
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah. ~Um, ~we'll talk about ~the, ~cardiovascular age, ~so you know how old you are, right? But ~do you know how old your heart is? Yeah. And that number might not be the same, right? Your chronological age may or may not match your heart's biological age. ~Um. And so, ~and that's a very important metric to track is heart health.
Like heart diseases are, I think the second or the third [00:07:00] most, chronic, ~uh, ~condition that Americans, face. So anyway, so cardio, yeah. Women specifically.
Juna: ~that. Yeah. ~About women's heart health.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Women's health is such a, it's such huge topic in itself that we can talk about all day. ~Um, but, ~but zeroing in on the cardiovascular age algorithm, ~um, ~that I was talking about. So this is an algorithm that has been sort of under development for like five or six years. ~Um, the, ~I am talking about cardiovascular age, CVA.
Juna: Okay.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah, we,
Juna: HRV to analyze that heart rate variability or are you using something different?
Jasmin Hemdani: HRV is part of what goes into your cardiovascular age. ~Um, ~resting heart rate goes into cardiovascular age. ~Uh, ~breathing rate goes into cardiovascular age. So cardiovascular age is the holistic number. That is ~con, that is like ~made up of all the different smaller, metrics all of that gives you this [00:08:00] beautiful number, let's call CVA.
~And ~it tells you whether your heart is older than your body, like whether your heart is performing at the same capacity that it should be at your biological age.
Juna: Yeah. So compared to people your same age, how well are you doing above or below ~and, ~and your biological age can differ
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah. ~So~
Juna: actual age, ~just like, you know? Yeah. ~Wear and tear.
Jasmin Hemdani: specifically for your heart.
Juna: Yes,
Jasmin Hemdani: cardiovascular age is your heart,
Juna: yes.
Jasmin Hemdani: right? ~Uh, uh, ~when we talk about something called biological age, you talking about like ~a, ~a bigger picture, even bigger than CVA.
Juna: Yes. Like your genomics and all of that?
Jasmin Hemdani: there's lots in that goes in. So ~my CVA, I'm not trying to brag. ~My CVA is 5.5 years younger than my age, so I am 35.
Juna: uhhuh.
Jasmin Hemdani: 35 this year. ~Um, ~Um, thank you. ~Uh, ~it feels like a big milestone and, ~uh, ~my heart is five and a half years younger, so my [00:09:00] heart is performing at 29 and a half, which is great. Hey, that makes me so happy.
Juna: And this is all like on the app
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Yeah. ~
Juna: HRV is such an old technology, but
Jasmin Hemdani: I.
Juna: ~nice. Um, ~I have used the Em wave with my students to train the HRV, which is the heart rate variability, or your heart being able to react to different conditions.
~So it could actually, ~it really means that your heart is changing its, ~um, ~rhythm with your breath, with your activity, with sleep, all of that, and it measures that. ~And that, ~that's a pretty good indicator of your. Cardiovascular health, ~but like you said, you know, putting it all together, ~I love that Oura has that, so
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: I'm definitely gonna be buying one of those Oura rings, but I'm just worried ~if, ~if I lose weight because ~uh, ~I'm trying to lose some menopausal weight or something. How do you, like, can you change out the bands or do you have to buy a new one? How does it work?
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Um, ~so you have five fingers on your hands, right? And
so you have like five different sizes.
Juna: Uhhuh.
Jasmin Hemdani: I'm currently wearing my [00:10:00] ordering on my index finger, which is like the recommended finger, but you can swap it to ~your pinky finger, or sorry, ~your ring finger or pinky finger. So as you weigh changes, you can move them around
you can move it around a little bit.
~Um, and ~it'll still work.
Juna: Oh my gosh, I didn't even think about that. 'cause I've been thinking about my engagement ring, So tell us about your journey when did you find out that you were five and a half years younger than your biological age? ~Do you think it helped to have the Oura ring?~
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah. ~Um, ~so yes. ~Um, it's, ~it's a metric that changes slowly. It's not a metric that changes every day,
Juna: Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: Your CVA changes. Slowly. ~Um, ~I did have a bout of like sickness and not being very active, and my HRV went from being five and a half to four, and that was a really big motivator in getting me moving.
I had overcome sickness and then I was still feeling very lazy and my body was ready for the next, like getting back into working out. ~But~
Juna: ~Uh.~
Jasmin Hemdani: I was feeling, I was not feeling motivated enough and then my CVA updated [00:11:00] to five years and I was like, ~uh, ~maybe I should try. And then my CV updated again to four years and I was like, oh, my heart is getting old.
I need to work out. And that was a huge motivator in getting me out the door and getting me on a brisk walk and getting me back on the weight machine and getting me back on the rowing machine.
Juna: how long of a period did you lose that year and a half off your heart?~ of a period did you lose that year and a half off your heart?~
Jasmin Hemdani: let me grab my phone real quick and I'll give you actual data.
Juna: yes. I love data. ~I.~
Jasmin Hemdani: so we'll look at some real data.
Juna: So I have to say that I like that the, ~uh, ~cardiovascular age is over time because sometimes when you get ~getting ~real data, you can really get ~like. ~Obsessed with checking 'cause just for fun. I had a continuous glucose monitor on and I was constantly checking my levels
Jasmin Hemdani: Oh
Juna: everybody crazy.
Jasmin Hemdani: yeah. I've considered getting a CGM ~and ~which is a continuous glucose monitor. Sorry, I'm like used to using all the [00:12:00] acronyms. I'll try better.~ Sorry, I'm like used to using all the acronyms. I'll try better.~
Juna: You know I'm a physician, right?
Jasmin Hemdani: Oh, I had no idea. ~Yeah.~
Juna: ~Yeah. But, ~but my audience is not, so it's great that you're spelling everything out.
Jasmin Hemdani: all right, well, ~um, ~okay, so in, ~uh, ~September of last year, my cardiovascular age was six and a half years. and then it climbed up to five and a half. Then it climbed up to four and a half. So my heart was like. Catching up with my body not being as young as it was like a month ago.
So by October I was at four and a half years, so that's a year and a half. So like it took, it took a whole month for that metric to update and that was when I had caught like the flu or something was going on, and then I was like, I'm not working out, whatever. ~Um, ~and then I started working out. And then it went to five years in November.
And then by mid-November I had gone down to six and a half years. ~'cause I was so motivated. And~
Juna: up? Yeah. Oh, down. Yes.
Jasmin Hemdani: so you,
Juna: was younger.
Jasmin Hemdani: yeah.
Juna: was
Jasmin Hemdani: So
Juna: years younger.
Jasmin Hemdani: yeah, So you want [00:13:00] more gap, right? If you're four years, six and a half years is better
Juna: Yes.
Jasmin Hemdani: four years.
Juna: Got it. That's amazing. So over a few months you were able to, ~um, ~lower your cardiovascular age
Jasmin Hemdani: yeah,
Juna: just by exercising.
Jasmin Hemdani: by exercising exactly ~like getting into more like active zones for my heart and ~like getting my heart pumping.
Juna: Mm-hmm. ~And ~does ~Oura show? Oura Show ~Oura show the actual live heart rate and things like that.
Jasmin Hemdani: you, we do have a heart rate line. ~So yeah, you can see that~
Juna: Awesome.
Jasmin Hemdani: more you can see ~in addition to ~your heart rate
Juna: Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: much physiological stress you're under. You can also see how much time you've spent in a restored state,
which stress is a part of our lives.
We live busy, productive lives, and we're all go-getters. ~Um, is the stress is normal, normal.~
Juna: ~to actually wake up in the morning. ~I always tell everybody you need cortisol, ~uh, ~that cortisol in the morning to get you out of bed.
Jasmin Hemdani: Exactly.
Juna: why heart attacks happen at Dawn because a lot, you know, that sort of change, that circadian rhythm change can cause
Jasmin Hemdani: But what you also need is some [00:14:00] restorative time. ~I.~
Juna: Yes.
Jasmin Hemdani: And like Oura visualizes that for you. So today I, it's only noon, so I've had 30 minutes of stress. ~Uh, ~but I've also managed to squeeze in 30 minutes of restorative time. That was probably the morning yoga that I did.
Juna: Nice.
Jasmin Hemdani: ~but let's look at yesterday.~
I had four and a half hours of stress throughout the day, but I did squeeze in an hour and 45 minutes of restorative time.
Juna: mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: So that goes.
Juna: data that it's using to measure the stress?
Jasmin Hemdani: so it's physiological stress. It's not psychological stress, and it is your heart rate, your breathing rate, ~um, ~body temperature, things like that
Juna: Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: to
Juna: it measures temperature.
Jasmin Hemdani: It does,
Juna: So does my whoop
Jasmin Hemdani: yeah.
Juna: But ~um, yeah, ~as a mind body I have to say that the physiological stress is related to your mental stress ~as~
Jasmin Hemdani: It is ~it, it absolutely is.~
Juna: ~and I do love data too. ~I think that it's so powerful to see outside of yourself and like have that feedback, you know, so every time I had ~the, ~the cgm, [00:15:00] the continuous glucose monitor on, and I would eat a big meal and then I would actually just go walk on the treadmill, not even fast or anything, I would see that, that sugar dipping. ~was awesome. ~It would just get so controlled. And so even if you walk that like five, 10 minutes right after a meal and you can see that line is so powerful.
Jasmin Hemdani: Absolutely. ~Yes.~
Juna: yeah. So I wanna talk to you about what inspired you to enter data science and was this something you were attracted to as a kid?
As a woman in stem? ~I, ~I wanna know about how you got interested in this.
Jasmin Hemdani: It was, I'll tell you my journey and you can decide why and how I got into it. ~Right. I'll, I'll, I'll, ~I'll tell you why I think 'cause it was accidental. my bachelor's is in electrical engineering, so I've always been about ~like ~devices and taking things apart and figuring out how they work and, ~um, ~I worked at a chemical plant.
In Texas. ~Um, ~they're part of Bayer, Bayer Material Sciences, the folks who make aspirin.
Juna: Yes.
Jasmin Hemdani: I worked there for a couple of years and It was such an awesome opportunity. I [00:16:00] got to work with hardware, I got to work with software. I got to work with the design of the, ~uh, ~user interface that the chemical plant was using, and that just kind of opened my mind to being like, oh, I have a degree in electrical engineering.
That doesn't mean I can only use it for electronics and hardware stuff. I can apply it to all these other cool features. ~Um, ~and that's sort of where I got the inspiration to be like, okay, what can I do with all the data that's coming off of these sensors? We install like 700 sensors in this chemical factory.
~Um, ~yeah, it was awesome.
Juna: ~of like, what? ~What do you mean by sensor? Like humidity sensor, that kind of thing, or
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah. Humidity sensor. Pressure sensor. We had a lot of chemical flowing from one tank to another tank, so we had a lot of ~flow meters, uh, ~meter sensors that would detect how much liquid was flowing. Chemical was flowing from one tank to another tank. At what rate, at what temperature? And
Juna: of data
Jasmin Hemdani: so much data coming in.
Juna: and you had to kind of decipher that, ~clean that data or, or ~make sense of it?
Jasmin Hemdani: [00:17:00] Make sense of it, show it to the technicians in a way that it would make their jobs easier in troubleshooting issues and monitoring that the chemical processes were happening as expected. ~And that's kind of what opened my mind to data, basically.~
Juna: Wait, but you were an electrical engineer, so how did you get hired into this job ~and what was the job~
Jasmin Hemdani: Right. So this job was called a process control engineer.
Juna: Hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: process control engineering is part of, ~is like ~electrical engineering directly ties into that.
and this job was, ~uh, ~automating an entire process. So ~it had all the, uh, aspects of it, like it, the, ~the process was completely manual when we got there, me and my team as part of a three person team.
And by the end, after ~like ~several years, it was a fully automated process. So I got to work on all sorts of things, hardware, software, data.
Juna: accident, ~but is it because you became curious about a different,~
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah,
Juna: of parallel
Jasmin Hemdani: yeah. I started to teach myself,~ yeah. I started to teach myself, ~I started by learning Python. I started by learning data engineering practices. ~I~
Juna: Wow.
Jasmin Hemdani: courses and I was just so [00:18:00] curious about.
Juna: where did you learn about ~Python? Like where did you learn the ~Python? Was it CS 50 or something?
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Uh, ~it was just an online course, to be honest. And a lot of practice.
Juna: I love that. So you'd self-taught Python on
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: ~courses. ~Did you use Coursera or edX or one of those platforms or just,
Jasmin Hemdani: Oh gosh. I don't even remember anymore. ~Um, ~but ~it, ~it was not Coursera, it was the other one that was big during that time. ~And ~this is like 2016, right? ~So.~
Juna: That's edX that did Harvard. MIT~ MIT is edX~
Jasmin Hemdani: It was probably that one. ~Yeah. And this is like 2016, right? I don't even remember anymore. And I've always been somebody who learns and is always like constantly taking courses. ~I've taken so many courses in my
Juna: I'm
Jasmin Hemdani: life, ~like that color theory course I told you about. Yeah.~
Juna: ~with you. ~That's why I came back to school for my master's degree in. In education, but
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah,
Juna: the whole semester now ~at, ~at MIT, which, ~you know, ~you can cross register. So I've been learning everything about AI ~um, ~I just thought it was a great time to learn about ai, but ~I, ~I love your story in the sense that you just followed your curiosity,
Jasmin Hemdani: I did.
Juna: Just get curious
can, anybody can learn anything online. ~That's~
Jasmin Hemdani: absolutely.
Juna: out here.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yes. ~Uh.~
Juna: You actually don't have to [00:19:00] come back to school ~like I did.~
Jasmin Hemdani: It's an, ~uh, ~hey, I love being a student at school specifically. I absolutely love it too. ~Uh, ~my life just hasn't gone that way yet. ~Uh, ~I haven't ruled it out. I love folks who go back to school ~after, ~after a break, and I feel like that positions them in a really awesome space to learn meaningful things.
Juna: It definitely recharged my brain. Um, how did you end up at Oura?
Jasmin Hemdani: So after my job at Bayer, ~I had, ~I worked in healthcare data analytics for humans. Then I worked on, ~uh, ~DNA analytics for dogs, different companies. ~Um, ~and I always kind of just like gravitated more and more. Towards like using data to make lives better. It was, first it was for humans, then I was like, take a break, go make dogs' lives better.
~And then I was like, I'm ready for something else. ~And that just happened to be like somebody from Oura reached out. They're like, Hey, we loved your profile on LinkedIn. Do you wanna come talk to us? ~And I, I really wanted to talk to Oura 'cause ~I had seen them pop up online and I had seen them like pop up in my [00:20:00] ads.
I was like, yeah, I'm curious. And I got to know the team and the work they were doing, and I was, I was just sold. I was like, yes, I wanna be part of this.
Juna: I love it and I love Making lives better with data? That sounds like a tagline.
Jasmin Hemdani: ~I, you know, I just, ~I just thought of that. So maybe I'll make that my tagline now.
Juna: Well, for all those listening who wonder what they're gonna do with their lives, ~um, ~a lot of students and, you know, parents of students listen to this. So did Oura reach out to you? What was on your LinkedIn profile and also how did you get that first initial like job outside of your electrical engineering? After the chemical factory?
Jasmin Hemdani: Okay, so ~two, ~two part questions. I'll answer the first one first.
Juna: Okay.
Jasmin Hemdani: So getting out of the electrical engineering space and making that move into the data analytics space was the challenging bit, right? ~Because you're changing a whole track.~
Juna: Mm.
Jasmin Hemdani: I had the same resume, but I sort of talked [00:21:00] more about the projects that I was passionate about.
And a lot of the data projects made it onto that list. I talked a lot about my skills, my Python skills, and my data engineering skills, and how I had learned all these cool things. I also did quite a few of like. Personal projects on, on like GitHub, which were not part of my job to demonstrate that I'm more than a process engineer.
Juna: Wow.
Jasmin Hemdani: and that was really helpful.
Juna: ~um, ~repo,
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: links to whatever you coded on
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Yeah. ~I think it's called like a portfolio, ~uh, ~a well-rounded portfolio is what I was trying to make. ~Um. ~Yeah, and I was also not afraid to move away from home. ~I, ~this was in Texas. My first data analytics job was in Boston, so ~I, ~I chased where I saw my opportunity. I went there.
Juna: And the first two jobs with the human and the dogs, did you find those jobs or did they find you
Jasmin Hemdani: ~The, ~the first one I [00:22:00] found, ~um, ~because I was transitioning away from process engineering
Juna: Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: and then Covid happened. ~Um, and then ~I. Didn't want to work. I wanted to spend time with my mom and dad during Covid. ~Uh, ~I was dating my then boyfriend. Now husband has been long distance, so I wanted to go live closer to him.
So I quit my job. I moved ~to ~to Louisiana for a few months to be with my parents. Then I moved to San Diego to live with my boyfriend for a few months. ~Uh, ~we ended up getting married. And traveled the world for a year and a half, and then I was finally ready to come back to work. I was like, yes, I feel recharged.
I feel like I'm ready to make a difference. I'm ready to get curious again. And I started looking at what else was happening out there. ~And ~doggy, DNA was embark was. New on the field. They were doing some groundbreaking work. ~Um, ~the two [00:23:00] co-founders had traveled the world sampling dogs for their DNA all over the world, and they were building this amazing database of dog genetic information that had never been built before.
And that was just so fascinating. I was working with a recruiter at that time because I had. Taken a long break and I wanted to make sure that I had a smooth process coming back into work. ~Uh, and ~I told him that, Hey, I'm really interested in these people. They're doing some really awesome work.
~Um, and ~he was able to, ~uh, ~get me connected to the right folks and we talked and they were very appreciative of the fact that I had taken a break to recharge and was enthusiastic to come back.
Juna: I mean, most people would be afraid to take a break, I think.
Jasmin Hemdani: I agree with that.
Juna: you just kind of said. I'm going to do what's important to me. And I guess obviously you had means to do that
Jasmin Hemdani: I did.
Juna: ~your prior work, so, um, but even still, like it's hard to come back after a year and a half.~
Did you create a narrative that was strong around why you took that time off?
Jasmin Hemdani: Well,
Juna: even, were you ~even ~concerned [00:24:00] about it? ~You~
Jasmin Hemdani: I wasn't concerned about it. ~Um, and I, ~I told them what I told you. I didn't want ~the, ~the world seemed like it was ending around me. I didn't want to lose out on time with my parents. I didn't want to lose out on time with my, boyfriend, now husband, who I love. So much. ~I, ~I was like, this is important to me and I'm gonna go do this important thing.
~Uh, and I think, and I, I am not, ~I won't say that ~I didn't like ~Embark was the only interview I did. I did a lot of other interviews where some people were not appreciative of the fact that I took such a long break.
Juna: Hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: and I knew that those were not the right places for me to be. ~'cause our priorities and values don't align.~
Juna: Maybe the dog lovers point of view of the world aligned with more of a relaxed, I don't know.
Jasmin Hemdani: Taking time for what's important. ~Yes.~
Juna: Yes. ~I.~
Jasmin Hemdani: And when you are working, ~when you are building something new, ~you give it your a hundred percent. You build world class solutions. But when it's time for family, when it's time for recharging yourself, guess what? You give that a hundred percent too.
Juna: This is why I asked you to come on my podcast. 'cause you were talking about this [00:25:00] stuff at Harvard also, and it just resonated so much with me. I mean, you know, there are times in our lives where juggling is not actually a truthful thing. You can't juggle everything at once. So it's like you're gonna go off balance to one thing or the other. Like, I focused on my children for a very long time, you know, ~and, um, ~and career. But there's no real balance, what is, what I'm trying to say. It kind of does seesaw up and down depending on what time of life you're in.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah, absolutely.
Juna: So congratulations on all the success you've had,
Jasmin Hemdani: Thank you.
Juna: and more success to come, I'm sure.
Jasmin Hemdani: I.
Juna: When we're talking to kids about data, ~say, ~I talk to a lot of kids who are interested in STEM ~and um, ~and I think data matters now more than ever is ~do you, ~do you agree with that?
Jasmin Hemdani: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I've built my career on data.
Juna: Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: think it's only going to become more important as our capacity to collect and interpret data increases.
Juna: [00:26:00] Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Uh, ~so it's both, right? You can collect a lot of data, but ~the, the, ~the next question is now what? Or so what,
Juna: But let's
Jasmin Hemdani: ~uh.~
Juna: even granular than that for people who don't even think about data in their day-to-day lives, ~right. ~Why, what would you tell them about why it's so important? ~Um, ~for our day-to-day lives, actually,
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Um,~
Juna: I.
Jasmin Hemdani: you might not be consciously thinking about data, but everything you absorb, whether it's from your eyes or from your nose, or you eat something or you touch something, or you. Absorb an idea. All of that is data, right? I am seeing a car pass by, that's data. If I sit here and look at how many cars pass by my window at the end of the day, I know how busy of a street I live on.
Juna: Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: you might not think of those observations as data, ~but your whole world is made up of data points~
Juna: And it's
Jasmin Hemdani: and it's.
Juna: we make decisions based on data, right?
Jasmin Hemdani: Exactly ~you're, ~if you're going to buy a house, you are [00:27:00] collecting data points. If you are buying a candy, let's say for a child, you are probably like, how do you decide what's your favorite candy?
You assess different aspects of it. You assess whether you like the taste, you assess whether you like the texture. Is it a attractive packaging? All of those things are data points.
Juna: Yeah, when I was buying our house, we gathered so much data. I even gathered ~like ~data on pollution ~and, ~and the radius around a highway that you should
Jasmin Hemdani: See,
Juna: ~away from ~so that you don't have that, ~um, toxic I. ~Toxic pollution, and I would sit outside of the house at night, even with my husband, and we would be like, what is the nighttime like in this neighborhood?
Jasmin Hemdani: yeah.
Juna: was data, but now you can get that data probably just from ai, like chat, GPT, you know, like it probably don't have to sit outside of the house maybe.
Jasmin Hemdani: Probably not. ~Um,~
Juna: Although I do believe in, ~you know, sense, ~sense data is very important, like our
Jasmin Hemdani: absolutely.
Juna: ~feeling. ~But yeah, tell me more about that. Like ~how da, ~how you use data from Oura to go [00:28:00] inwards and why is that so important for our wellbeing and our, you know, ability to thrive in our lives?
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Absolutely. Yes. ~So your body, for a long time we've looked at a body and you go to the doctor when something's wrong, and by that time a lot has happened and you have ended up in a state of unease or disease. Looking at the signals that your body is sending you, that's more than hunger or thirst, the ones that we feel very loudly.
Your body's constantly giving you all these signals and by collecting them and by interpreting them in a scientific correct way, you now have actionable insights.
Juna: Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: I am a night owl personally. And having that validation come from my Oura ring, which has looked at my sleep patterns, it has looked at my activity patterns.
When is my mind in its most creative? Like when is my [00:29:00] mind in its most active? That has given me ~the IMP Paris and ~the reasoning and like some motivation to stand up for myself. Be like, no, I am more active at night. I will be taking an hour to do my creative projects at night. I will not be forcing myself to wake up at 5:00 AM because my body type is not that.
Juna: Interesting.
Jasmin Hemdani: And you hear in the media, morning, ~oh, ~owls are the best. And like as a society we've like developed to think that
Juna: Yeah.
Jasmin Hemdani: ~early morning is everything. ~Teenagers need so much more sleep than we give them the time for.
Juna: And especially in the mornings, they ~sh ~start to shift their circadian rhythm,
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah,
Juna: also a night owl too, but. a different night owl because at night I like to watch TV or something and it's terrible. And like my creativeness is like very early in the morning usually when I have more energy.
~So I wonder what Oura has to say about that~
Jasmin Hemdani: it would be so fun to put the ring on you and observe you for a few months and just see what your chronotype is.
Juna: ~Uh ~Uh huh.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: gives you an actual [00:30:00] Chronotype,
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: app.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah,
Juna: Amazing. So it'll probably tell me I'm very confusing.
Jasmin Hemdani: I don't think so.
Juna: I always say, 'cause it was, I was born in Seoul, Korea, South Korea, and I moved to America. So I always say ~that ~that's my problem.
Jasmin Hemdani: You're ~still ~jet lagged.
Juna: Yeah. ~I don't know.~
Jasmin Hemdani: I'll tell you this, you'll get some very actionable insights from your ring. I've made a lot of other changes, ~uh, in my life ~based on the data that Oura has given me. ~So~ So
Juna: exercise, right?
Jasmin Hemdani: exercise is a big one. I know. My deep sleep happens, ~uh, ~more in the early part of the early part of my sleep.
So I make a point to wear a sleep mask and prioritize, like when I get into bed.
Juna: Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: first half of my sleep is very important for me, so ~I, ~I've made conditions right to like optimize that time.
Juna: So all this data, I mean, I love it because it's about self-awareness, right?
Jasmin Hemdani: Yes.
Juna: Because I. always talk about how our brain [00:31:00] is encased in our cranium and our skull, and the brain is actually not looking at itself. So that's why self-awareness is so hard, and I think things like Oura and whoop, all of these things give us some insight into ourselves. if we look at our friends, we can say right away, or our kids, for example, I'll be like, no, to my daughter. Like, you have to go to sleep early. You need sleep. You've been like this since the you were a baby. So you have all that awareness of other people. 'cause you can observe them, you can't really observe yourself as much.
~Right.~
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah. you hit the nail on the head with that. It's a companion that observes you and gives you information in a very gentle, unbiased way. It's something you can trust and it's doesn't come with judgment.
Juna: Mm.
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Like if my mom calls me, yeah. ~If my mom calls me and asks me if I have eaten a balanced breakfast.
it's coming from a place of concern. So ~it, ~it removes that human tendency to [00:32:00] perceive outside perspective as judgment. ~Um,~
Juna: which
Jasmin Hemdani: you.
Juna: sometimes I talk to chat GPT because it's not gonna judge me.
Jasmin Hemdani: See, ~um, ~and it's scientifically backed. It's proven to be very, very accurate.
Juna: Uhhuh.
Jasmin Hemdani: so you can have the peace of mind that what you're listening to ~and the advice that's been given to you ~is coming from a data source that is 99% accurate about what your body needs.
Juna: Hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: So there's that aspect to it.
Juna: So, ~um, ~can parents introduce their children to data concepts and make it accessible and engaging? I.~ I. ~Can you give them like some day-to-day examples that they can resonate with or relate to kids?
Jasmin Hemdani: I would say make data a daily part of like conversation, but not. In like an overbearing way. I was curious about all these things that were happening around me, so I'm somebody who's not [00:33:00] interested in working in financial data.
I have friends who are passionate about market trends
Juna: Uhhuh.
Jasmin Hemdani: all of that, ~so you kind of have to find the feel that your child might be naturally curious about.~
Juna: Okay.
Jasmin Hemdani: And then nurture that, introduce data in that field. You might find a more receptive audience. Somebody who's ~more willing to, if your kid might be ~more willing to think about data in terms of a field that they're already interested in.
Juna: Interesting. So if they're watching a TV show that they love, you can go into the data of like how many people watch that show,
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: how long it took to make that
Jasmin Hemdani: Mm-hmm.
Juna: all that stuff.
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Yeah. ~Where in the world are other people watching this show? Where in the world is the biggest viewership? ~Uh, ~what percentages you can sort of start digging into that.
Juna: Yes. ~Especially now that we have ai,~
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: So, the scenes at Oura, ~we, ~you're working on features and developing things all the time ~and ~or organizing data sets. ~Um, ~can you share some insights? About that, just in general. I know that's a big question, but
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah, so research has so many [00:34:00] phases, right? ~I, ~I think that's something I can talk about the phases of research, like
Juna: Okay.
Jasmin Hemdani: does a idea go from an idea to a product I.
Juna: Okay.
Jasmin Hemdani: Right, and research plays a huge part of it. Data plays a ~large, large, ~large part of it. So you have an idea that somebody had an idea, ~uh, ~at Oura that, Hey, could you calculate your cardiovascular age from the information on the ring?
And what did we do? We theorized that perhaps we could, we did ~a lot of internal data collections, ~a lot of data analysis on the internal, ~uh, ~data collections, which is just where people who work at Oura contribute their data for science. ~Um, ~and once we have a working hypothesis, we partner with universities, we partner with, research facilities, and then we open up the research to people.
People who are eligible can sign up through these universities. ~Uh, ~we have some studies ongoing with University of San Francisco, ~uh, ~university of Los Angeles, [00:35:00] and you become part of the community that's contributing data. Uh, you contribute your data, with consent. There's a lot of consent that goes into it
Juna: And you offer the Oura ring, ~um, ~for free or
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Uh,~
Juna: ~uh, or do they have to pay?~
Jasmin Hemdani: it's different for every study. Every study has a different protocol.
Juna: students at Julliard. Maybe we could do something together when they're going on stage with the Or, ring. ~Ring.~
Jasmin Hemdani: hey, that's an awesome idea. I, I would pursue that. but every study has a different protocol and it's, the needs are different. compensation if provided is different. ~Um.~
Juna: Okay.
Jasmin Hemdani: we do collect state-of-the-art data. from participants, and we use that to develop our algorithms. We collect hundreds of data points.
~Uh, ~we collect them ~around ~from people who are wide, ~uh, ~demographics. ~Uh, ~we try to make sure that we have a representative, percentage of people that we've collected data from. So when our models are built, ~uh, ~they're accurate for. Almost everyone ~that has an ordering that ~they are not biased for, ~uh, ~race ~or ~identity [00:36:00] or genders.
We take care to ~like, ~develop algorithms that ~are, uh, they ~have integrity across, populations.
Juna: Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: And that is a ~long ~journey for an idea to come to a product.
Juna: what would you tell kids to focus on now that AI is changing the future of work?
Jasmin Hemdani: Oh my gosh. ~So I, that's a really interesting question. ~That's a big question. I was at the MIT museum last night and they have this full, ~um, ~AI Mind the Gap, ~uh, ~exhibit, and that's. Focused on ai, how it has changed from the sixties, seventies, ~um, ~to now, and what's possible, and I love the idea they presented there.
It's that AI is supposed to be cooperative.
We work with AI to improve our lives. AI is not a great decision maker.
Juna: Mm-hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: are still the decision maker. You are still the person asking questions. AI helps you gather information, organize your [00:37:00] thoughts. ~Uh, ~but we are always going to need people who can direct AI in what to do.
maybe the AI can then go do the work, but we will always need good decision makers. We will always need people ~who are. ~Who know where to look or what is important. 'cause AI doesn't, it can't do that. It can answer your questions, it can tell you everything about one topic, but it doesn't know what is the important topic.
Juna: Hmm.
Jasmin Hemdani: So AI is a great helper.
Juna: oh, a helper. So it will like 10x you basically
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Oh yes. ~It totally has the ability to, to 10x you. ~Uh.~
Juna: I'm sure you're learning all about it because you're so curious. And, ~uh, ~do you use it every day in
Jasmin Hemdani: I use it every day. I use it every day in work. ~Uh, ~my emails are cleaner
Juna: Oh, nice.
Jasmin Hemdani: I use AI to help me write them. Gemini has been helpful in troubleshooting some like virtual environment type stuff while chat. G [00:38:00] PT is really good at, ~um, ~text analysis,
Juna: Nice.
Jasmin Hemdani: what I'm finding, but that's just my experience, ~right. My colleagues have different experience variance.~
Juna: is free ~with Google, ~so
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
I use Gemini and I use Chat GPT more because I'm interested in which one's better. So I'll usually pose the same question to both of them and see what they say.
sometimes Chat GPT is a better performer. Sometimes Gemini is a better performer.
Juna: interesting. so Jasmin, thank you so much for being here. I love it. I would love to continue this conversation. where can listeners learn more about your work at Oura or about Oura in general?
Just at their website.
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Yeah, absolutely. ~I would send you to Ouraring.com.
Juna: ~Uh~
Jasmin Hemdani: We have, ~uh, ~sections where you can learn about the ring itself. We have sections where you can read our health blog. It talks about all the cool discoveries making, ~uh, ~we have a how or a works section if you are curious about. How it works and what you can expect and what your [00:39:00] day can look like.
~Um, yeah. ~And you can look at what careers we have open.
Juna: Amazing.
Jasmin Hemdani: Yeah.
Juna: students that ~have ~have interned for me who might be very interested in applying to Oura.
Jasmin Hemdani: Absolutely. ~Yeah. Go, ~go to our website and I really recommend going to ~our, ~our blogs that are under the Why Oura section. They're very informative. ~Our, um, ~the person who writes the blogs for us, her name is Lock and she is a gem of a person. ~Uh, and ~I just love reading her writing. So I would recommend people to go to the Oura Blog and learn more about Oura.
Juna: Great. And how old do you have to be to use it? Like what's the minimum age?
Jasmin Hemdani: I don't know.
Juna: I would love to know, you
Jasmin Hemdani: I don't know if there is a minimum age. ~Uh,~
Juna: Yeah, let me know.
Jasmin Hemdani: yeah, I think if you're interested in learning about your sleep, you
Juna: tweens, even maybe. ~I~
Jasmin Hemdani: ~yeah, I, um, ~I know people who are using Oura rings for their children. Tweens, early teens,
Juna: [00:40:00] Awesome.
Jasmin Hemdani: ~Absolutely. ~I don't know if there's a minimum ring age. ~Wow. What a question.~
~I'm stumped. ~I will find out and I will email you.
Juna: so go to mindbody space.com to the podcast page and sign up, and I always follow up with them if they have any questions about the podcast. And would you be willing to, ~uh, ~answer them
Jasmin Hemdani: Oh yeah, absolutely. ~Yes.~
Juna: ~I'm so excited. ~And where are you based
Jasmin Hemdani: I'm based in Boston.
Juna: Oh, we have to have lunch.
Jasmin Hemdani: Okay.
Juna: Before I graduate and move back to New York, ~but it's not too far. ~I'll be back
Jasmin Hemdani: It's not.
Juna: but I'd love to take you out for lunch.
Jasmin Hemdani: I would love to meet with you for lunch. ~I love a good lunch conversation. And yeah, ~let me know whenever.
Juna: ~Okay. ~Jasmin, thank you so much for being here. ~I really appreciate it.~
Jasmin Hemdani: I loved being here. Thank you so much for having me. ~uh,~
I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Head on over to mindbody space.com/podcast to sign up for our email list to get the latest tips and to send us your questions, while you're there, check out our courses and products on time, brain and stress for kids and parents. Thanks for joining us.